On this episode, Michael and Tish Ciravolo of Beauty In Chaos stop by! We discuss ‘Finding Beauty In Chaos’, ‘Beauty Re-envisioned’, and the story behind the making of these two albums. It’s a great time, and Michael and Tish’s story is both amazing and inspiring.

Show notes:

Weekly Challenge: One Favorite Cover or Remix

Foggy: Lover, You Should’ve Come Over – originally by Jeff Buckley. Covered by Nothing But Thieves- lead singer Conor Mason

JPP: Judith (renholder mix) A Perfect Circle

T-bags: Closer (Precursor) by Nine Inch Nails + COIL and Danny Hyde

Metalhead Mundy: KMFDM: “Light (Fat Back Dub mix)” remix by NIN

Misc. Mentions: Kyle Cooper title design

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Transcription

Intro: It’s another episode of Wanderings and Woolgathering… Here’s Foggy!

Foggy: Welcome to Wanderings and Woolgathering, Episode 32. The episode that shares its greatness with “32 Footsteps” by They Might Be Giants. “Chamber Of 32 Doors” by Genesis. “32” By Mister Mister. 32 by Van Morrison. “32 Pennies” by Warrant and “32 Ways to Die” by Sum 41. I guess you could say we’re keeping pretty good company tonight. Pun intended, because we are welcoming our first guest to Wanderings and Woolgathering tonight. With me as always are… JPP.

JPP: Hello. Hello

T-Bags: T-Bags.

Sound Effect: T-Bags… two hot for TV… SPLAT!

T-Bags: Hey, what’s up?

Foggy: …And Metalhead Mundy back from assignment.

Sound Effect: Step Inside! Into his mind, it’s boy-band time… It’s… Metalhead Mundy.

Metalhead Mundy: How’s it going everybody?

JPP: Howdy Howdy!

Foggy: Actually, you’re back from two assignments, one in Michigan and the concert the previous week do you wanna talk about that a little bit.

Metalhead Mundy: Yeah, I went and saw Stabbing Westward. It’s one of my favorite bands from the 90s and they kind of disappeared for a while and they’re doing a 25th anniversary of their album, “Darkest Days”. And it was a great show. It was a small crowd. I felt kind of bad for them attendance wise, but we were, we were rocking out and we were, they were loving the energy. Just could add a few more people there.

JPP: Very cool. How was, how was vocals and everything still got the range and all that good stuff?

Metalhead Mundy: They sounded wonderful.

JPP: Good.

Metalhead Mundy: Wonderful.

JPP: Good. That’s great.

Foggy: Speaking of sounding wonderful, we do have some exciting news tonight with our first guests ever. Michael and Tish Ciravolo.

Sound Effect: Guest Interlude Music.

Foggy: Welcome Michael and Tish. How are you guys?

Michael & Tish: Very good. Very good. Thank you for having us on. Yes. And we’re the first now I just found out.

JPP: Cool. Well thanks for coming on. We really appreciate it.

Foggy: We saved the best for first.

Michael & Tish: You’re going to raise the bar.

Foggy: Well I was going to do a little intro on your backgrounds, but it might be better if you did it yourself because you know you a little better than I do. Just for listeners, you want to give us a little brief background who for people who may not know who you are?

Tish: Um, okay. I’ll go first. Women first. My name is Tish Ciravolo and I’m President and Founder of Daisy Rock Girl Guitars. But more importantly, I’m the bass player and one of the vocalists featured on the new Beauty In Chaos and the Beauty In Chaos re-revisited, which is some remixes for Beauty in Chaos and a mother of two beautiful daughters. And. now my husband’s turn.

Michael: I guess, after all that, I’m just the husband now. I’m Michael Ciravolo. I dubbed myself curator Beauty In Chaos because you know, it something that for about a second was going to be a solo record turned into something way more and well beyond. Oh, that’s scope. And a also president of Schecter in guitar, which is the the day job. An interesting one, a challenging one, but a day job.

T-Bags: Yeah. Well, we’re super excited to have you guys on.

Foggy: I just wanted to work backwards and come forward a little bit. You know, on your documentary, we gave a little background to how you started a Beauty In Chaos, but what were your influences when you guys were starting out in music?

Michael: I mean, I, as a kid, I, you know, my first experience with it was my, my sister was, you know, who was older than me, was a Beatles fan. Oh No, I actually didn’t appreciate the Beatles sort a bit later in life. I kind of didn’t really hit music on until watching like some late night Don Kirsten’s rock concert and those type of shows that would come on like midnight and watching a little TV in my parents’ kitchen and got exposed to T-rex, David Bowie, Slade, Alice Cooper. And kind of just watching, watching that and seeing the girls kind of scream for that. I went, I don’t think I should play football anymore. I think I want to hold up a guitar and I’m not running a four, three 40. So and I cut a bunch of lawns at summer and bought my first crappy little electric guitar and you know, it went from there.

JPP: Nice. I can relate. I detasseled corn for my first guitar. So ,um, actually, Mundy was in the same bin with me pulling the tassels out of the corn.

Metalhead Mundy: Yeah that was a blast.

JPP: Indeed. So my little Warlock knockoff here I come and learning my thrash metal. So, you know, but that’s what it takes. Sometimes you gotta have that determination. If you want it, you gotta go for it. So…

Foggy: Yeah. Tish, how about you?

Tish: Well my best friend Barbara Coy taught me how to play Acoustic Guitar because we were like huge hardy boy fans and she liked Parker Stevenson and I liked Sean Cassidy. I was pretty sure if I learned how to play a guitar that Sean Cassidy would marry me. That’s back when we were kissing their posters at night to go to sleep. And then as I got a little older I when I moved to La I decided that I want to get a base and I sort of playing bass. But I love like, you know, the psychedelic furs, Tim Butler, Simon Gallop from the cure, they were like, my major influences. In fact, I went to a as a school for, to learn how to play bass. And my very first lesson I was there, the bass teacher came out and said, yeah, nobody gets to play with a pick. We have to play with their fingers. And I got up and walked out because I only wanted to play with the picks. So that’s Kinda how I found my sound. I also saw Suzi Cuatro as Leather Tuscadero on Happy Days. And I was like, whatever the hell she’s doing, that’s what I want to do because all the guys thought she was like so awesome. And I was like, okay,

Michael & Tish: As you can see, we got into it for all the right reasons.

Metalhead Mundy: Yeah, that’s, that’s a pretty common story. Everybody, you know, you pick up your instrument to attract the opposite sex or whoever you’re into for sure.

Foggy: Well, how did that lead to founding Daisy Rock Girl Guitars? That’s a big leap.

Tish: Yeah, it is a big leap. So I played a lot of bands in the 80s. In the 90s. I went back, I was in all heavy metal female band called lipstick and we had a billboard on the side of the Roxie on sunset boulevard. And you know, where the three of us would like run to the front of the stage, drop on one day and we’d all wind mill to the right together and then when we to the left together. And so but I was having, I need, I show at the FM station called Battle of the bitches. And a common friend that we had in common had brought Michael out to see me play. And and we had our first, she asked me out, we had our first date during the La riots. And so that really kind of kicked off our relationship. And you fast forward, you know, we both worked retail, try to do a lot of different jobs while playing in bands, you know, always had a day job playing in bands at night. And about five years later, we had our first little daughter, Nicole, and she one day as all little kids do when she’s about a year and a half, she drew a daisy and I drew a neck on that daisy and put a headstock on the shape of a leaf. And by that time my husband was at Schecter guitars. I took it to him and I said, you know what, we should make guitars for girls. And he kinda was like, he knew what that meant because as a female based player, I’m not a very small, petite little girl, but I’d always had these problems. Every time I walked into a music store, I couldn’t find something that I liked to play. So I play all the bases in the room to try to find a bass I could play. And he had actually made me a base when we very first started dating because he knew like it was lighter in weight. It had a slimmer neck profile. So we created this very first girl guitar with the hope and the concept that if more music stores had guitars for girls, more girls would be drawn into music stores and we could create a lot more girl guitar players. And so we created this actual smaller type instrument along the lines of what Prince played at the time. And created the very first Daisy Rock Girl Guitar, which is now in a museum down in Carlsbad, in the NAMM Museum, it hangs up there. We were both inducted into the museum back in 2006.

JPP: Congratulations. That’s awesome!

T-Bags: Yeah!

Tish: So that’s how we make the leap. So

Michael: Yeah, there used to be a lot of guitar talk around the table. Well that a bit, you know, it becomes, you know, trying to compartmentalize it. Well, were we wind to that, you know, going to that club and, and beautiful. They nice North Hollywood and here I am. I’m like, at that point, a golf guy, so trench coat, black eyeliner and go into this heavy metal club and all these bands and it’s just the high pitched screaming and you know, now that was never my cup of tea. I mean, I liked Judas priest and Scorpions a little bit when I was younger, but you know, I’ve always, that’s never been my thing. And if she wouldn’t have been so hot, I was going to leave it. I can’t take any more of this and not, and but I stayed, made it through their set and asked the routes and you know, the first date happened in La was burning. So there was the riots going on. So yeah, it, it was it was perfect from the start.

Everyone: (Laughter)

Michael: Since I know you guys have Ministry fans our first overnight, like date night Yeah. Oh, it was I think to 93, Lollapalooza ’92. Well, it was the second Lollapalooza, not the one Nine Inch Nails one the second one. She got tickets, some really nice tickets up front. So we go and it’s, it’s Ministry was second before the Chili Peppers and I mean Ministry was brutal. I mean it was like standing in front of the jet engine and and the Chili peppers came on after and it was just like somebody, you know, dropped the volume, a hundred db and that just got this like really kind of sad, you know, it was like Ministry was a jet engine and the no one was going to follow that and it was kind of strange, you know, I think it was 26 years later now sitting in my studio and we’re doing a track. So I mean, this whole Beauty In Chaos thing has been kind of a, a weird, a surreal journey. And that was just one of them that I always thought that was kind of interesting. Two drummers and like six guitars. It was there.

Mundy & JPP: Yeah. Paul and I saw them, what was it like ’96, I think? Yeah, with the Young Gods on the Filth Pig tour. And man, we know what you’re talking about. Yeah. And we were both young and at the time, like we saw them and the subs were so powerful. I left that show. The next morning I woke up and my back was sore and it wasn’t that I was doing anything, like any kind of crazy rigorous activity. I was standing there just taking it all in. But the low frequencies were hitting so hard that my muscles hurt. So that was definitely one of the more impactful shows I’ve been to. He left an impact literally. Yeah. I was worried about my heart for a couple of songs. I’m only 20!

T-Bags: I thought, you know, it’s a good concert. That’s what I’m worried about. Your heart, right? Yeah. Cool.

JPP: Yeah. Well speaking of Beauty In Chaos, I just want to say, and I’m not trying to be a fanboy here, but thank you for an album that has really kind of spanned a longer time than just the initial release. And that’s beside the remix. But I’m listening to it has really kind of brought back memories in a way for the sound of the album as well as just hearing, you know, familiar voices, familiar tones like Doug Pinnick’s Bass for instance. And just the whole collaborative process is just really taken me through the time span of me discovering those bands almost in real time. You know, cause like you go from track to track and it’s like, oh yeah, I remember when I first heard Cheap Trick and I remember when I first heard King’s X and things like that. But nonetheless, it’s been on rotation several times and It’s not been, it’s not been something that I’ve tabled and put away. I keep coming back to it frequently. And, and I just wanted to thank you for that.

Michael: Well, I appreciate that. I mean I, it’s in any other album I’ve been part of, I’ve been far more critical of, and I, I mean that, I think with this record, some reason I’ve been able to listen to it differently and be a fan of the, the singers who, you know, the singer and the lyricist of it. And kinda step out. I, I don’t find myself when I listened to this record, like diving into the listening, you know, zeroing in on guitar parts, like, Oh shit, I wish I would have did something different. They are, you know, that’s too, too low too. You know, where it’s been in the past has been like a critical listening this for upon this we’ve been able to listen to it as sort of a fan and a, which I think has given it a longevity to me, you know? But yeah, I appreciate the kind words on it. I’m really proud of what happened here and I, I think we’ve created a vehicle that I hope just continues to expand and evolve.

Metalhead Mundy: Absolutely. yeah, I had a question real quick. It is, Paul touched on the collaborations and, and man, you got some really great, really great collabs on here. Did your position at Schecter did that offer you easier access to anyone you didn’t already know?

Michael: Well, the position certainly has put me in the position to, to, to know these guys, but it’s, it’s been, I’ve been doing Schecter as president since 1996 so it’s my relationships, you know, with these guys, it’s been a friend basis, you know, I mean, we all have families and we talk, we talk music, we talk kids. And okay. You know, I would have never been without this position. I wouldn’t have been in, you know, known down. But it, it helped. And you know, I, they all did this because they wanted to, you know, I’ve had a couple, you know, a couple of snide comments like, oh, they just, you know, these guys are in it. You know, you work with them or give them instruments in there. I mean, that’s a lot of shit. You know, these guys aren’t, they, they’re not gonna put their name on something or be part of it, not, I, I witnessed the hours in the work and, you know, people, Robin Zander toiling over lyrics and sending stuff back. And you know, when you get an email from Simon of The Cure, going, hey, I’m working on a baseline, kind of like love song. Does that sound, how’s that sound to you? Like, is that the direction you want to go? And you know, pardon not to fanboy with the cure and go, yeah, no, I know, I think you should go a different route on that. So your relationship with all these guys and girls that came first that I think has made this kind of a a okay. The unique family situation and they all know, really enjoyed it. They’ve been really influential to me before. You know, most of these guys, their records are a big part of our collection. I mean, when we go back to us dating, it was, you know, the mission, the cure, you know, Sisters of Mercy, Cheap Trick, all those and Ministry… all those records, like spun in a little CD player like so many nights and, you know, feel blessed that, you know, to know them outside of that. And you know, they’re all good people. And I think this whole Beauty In Chaos has actually attracted and brought really good people into the fold. And you don’t always find that in this in the music business, you know record or manufacturing, I mean some real jackasses out there and I think we’re blessed at the people that have come in that work with the band, between the video people, photographers. I mean they’ve just become family and ah, I think they all look at it as being part of this.

Metalhead Mundy: I would say as a fan, I myself personally am not a musician, but I’ve always been a huge music and since I was a very small child and now that I’m an adult, when I see someone that I’m a fan of who turns out to or seems to be decent human being actually goes a long way in making me like the music more. I appreciate that a whole lot.

Michael: Yeah, there are some, I mean, being in an our position in the guitar business, you do get people and just being, well, I’ll say Angeles in general, I think there are this, what can you do for me mentality and you know, I grew up in the Wallins and that’s not, you know, to me, people in the south or I find them more genuine than when people like California. It’s, you know, maybe just the entertainment business. I don’t want to generalize California, but I think there’s always that mentality of, you know, stepping, you know, using people as stepping stones and yeah. And I’ve always like for a while I subscribe to that never meet your idol mentality. You know, I’ve met, it’s been a couple of people I’ve met before doing this that are, you know, real dicks. I mean, you can edit that out if you have to, but I mean, it’s just, no, the music business, I mean, it, all it is, is really somebody that got a break over somebody did and there, I mean, the levels of talent and everything doesn’t vary from each band. That’s, you know, so one record to somebody that sold 10 million copies. I think it is really a bit of luck in who you know and stuff in that. So I mean, I just don’t, I think people that actually start believing your own press and arrogant about it, you know, I, I don’t have time for that people. And thank God that there’s nobody that’s been involved in this record that as any of that, you know, I didn’t know Ice-T he’s the only person on this record that I didn’t really have a relationship. I knew Ernie and Vince, of Body Count, they’ve been friends for years and when we were working on Un-natural Disaster, we came to that part and it’s like, man, we have something needs something in this, this breakdown section and we let the part go. And it was like, man, maybe, you know, I know Colby from, from Papa Roach. He would be great in there. And I forget, maybe it was Mike Rose on and said, don’t, don’t you work with Ice-T. And it was like, wow, that would be interesting. And, I reached out to Ernie and he goes, let me talk to Ice. And he’s like, Ice will do it. And he definitely recorded it. And we got to meet him at the NAMM show. Schecter does a party each year and last year we had Ice-T and actually brought Body Count. That was my first time, us getting to meet him and he actually shot his little video clip at the show, such a nice guy. And it’s like, thank you. He said song came out dope. So he liked that. All the lingo that meant dad, he likes it. That’s amazing.

JPP: That’s awesome. Foggy. Do either of you have questions.

T-Bags: Yeah, I’ll jump in here real quick. And not to be too much of a fan boy, but I had set up as represented. Yeah.

JPP: Before he asks a question, I want to tell you, I told the guys our goal is not to be like Chris Farley on SNL when he’s interviewing Paul McCartney. You remember when you did that song?

T-Bags: Yeah, so. So you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I remember hearing a, uh interview with David Gilmore who said that he could never experience Dark Side of the Moon because he created it so he couldn’t just like open an album and put it on and hear it for the first time. And I wondered if, you know, you talked about handing the keys over a lot with the remixes. Did that kind of give you an ability to kind of then re-hear your music differently kind of as someone experiencing it for the first time?

Michael: Yeah, it it started by accident. Like the whole idea of doing this remix record I had when Wayne Hussy of The Mission, he invited me to come down to Texas, to Austin where Tim Palmer has a studio and you know, I’m a huge Tim Palmer Fan. I mean his work with The Mission, Tin Machine, Robert Plant, I mean, the guy, his resume is just incredible. And I bought, I mean, I spent countless hours when I was really heavy into the studio side of things just listening. Like, how’s he get that space? How’s he do, you know, all that. So go on to meet Tim was was cool when we went out after and we had a couple of drinks. I went… Okay. I’m gonna go ahead and ask him why not? Oh, he can say is no, and cause Wayne had already committed to doing some songs. So I asked him, he said yes. So when Wayne sent the vocals, I sent the tracks to Tim, but I sort of failed to tell him like this little imposed rule that I had placed on myself on this record, which was going to be no keyboards. And I wanted to show myself I could do, you know, do all the guitar stuff, orchestrate and do all that with within. And in my excitement of him saying yes, I didn’t tell him that. So he sends both mixes back. I put it on, and listen. And it’s like, okay, that’s another guitar part. Ooh, there’s keyboards. And then like, now what, what to do now? Right. You know, you’re fantastic and you work with Bowie. Can you pull all this stuff you did off of the mix so that just spawned the idea of, you know, well maybe there’s some other people that that can do this and you know, I, I knew enough, you know, producers and engineers and stuff and it, it just started an idea. And it also, I think gave me a little bit of time to kind of step back and not, you know, since Beauty In Chaos, at least right now isn’t a live entity. I started immediately putting this pressure on myself. Like what, what next when I’m at, I’ve got to do another record that, you know, all that. And it was like this remix record, which blossomed into a massive listen of 25 tracks was also a sort of a, a breath that allowed, you know, me and Michael to step back and start going really let that happen once they started thinking about what was to happen next. Yeah. It’s really great to hear the way people interpreted stuff. I mean my favorite part of the remixes on the record room or the ones that people totally just assembled them, added stop changing like chord structures within the vocals would really take it to different places. And yeah, it’s again, I’m able to listen. Can I, cause I mean some remix records, you know, they sound good for one listen. Like, oh, that’s kind of cool. You know, that if you were in a dance club or something yeah, put that on. But what I really hoped, and I think a lot of this record is good for more than one. Listen, some of the songs really stand on their own as just a song. I think ‘The Long Goodbye’, the piano version, that’s just, I mean I still listen to that and so like brings me to tears. I was like, that was part of that. And we, we, I think we’ve got quite a few and I think it’s really diverse across the board. The way both where they took them, you know, it wasn’t just, you know, dance beats with drum machines and, you know, cut them up. There was again, a lot of the body that said yes and they kept being more and more people going, hey, I’d like to try one, I want to do it. It, it just kind of grew and I think it’s as diverse but also as cohesive, hopefully as different as far as Finding Beauty In Chaos.

Foggy: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more with some of what you said there because, and I even wrote it in the, the review. I, so many remixes I just don’t like because they sound like the dance club remix and they just add the beats and it’s all pepe and everything. There were actually three songs that I like better than the originals on the remix. And those are “Storm” when he completely stripped that down and re-sang to that whole thing, that was just beautiful. “Look Up” the one that’s really acoustic. I think it’s track three. “The Voice” is still highlighted, which I think was really important. And then you mentioned the long goodbye. With that grand piano and his voice is so good in that those three songs to me are better. I prefer them over the originals.

Michael: I think, you know, if you, if you can strip her song back and it still stands up, then I think it’s a really a good song that’s going to stand the test of time. It isn’t studio tricks that isn’t, you know a flavor. And I think those songs hit it, you know, real well the look up version that you’re referring to by you magma. Yeah, they put a lot of work in that. I mean, I think the only, my only guitar on that track is just a little soundscape parts at the end. Alex, uh, replay, like he did bass, he did play drums. I mean, he basically just took Tish’s vocals and you know, that makes it really interesting. You know, again, that shows somebody taking something, loving the song and going, I can do this with it, you know? And I think we’ve got quite a few of those on the record. And that’s, I mean from, from having a studio background mean that’s a lot of work. And I mean again, that people, are willing to put that kind of time into it. You know, it’s, it makes you feel real good about what we did.

T-Bags: Absolutely. Yeah.

JPP: For sure. And you know, you also mentioned, you know, Tish’s singing, sorry I get a little tongue tied sometimes I need more water here. But I just wanted to say too, your vocals are beautiful on this album. And one question, hey, I mean this has been the Michael Show. We’re onto the Tish show. You know, I did an album back in 2010 and I’m not making this about me, but in a comparitive experience and comparable, my, my wife did one song on the album and she’s very shy. She doesn’t, I mean we were music majors together and she moved to a music minor and she hated doing recital hours cause she didn’t want to be up in front of anybody singing. Even though she sounds angelic, I got her to sing on, on one of my albums and I really, I didn’t have to coach her as far as what to do. And, and you know, that was pitchy or anything like that cause she nailed it. It was just more, you can do this, come on, give me a little more energy and things like that. So I’m just curious, you know, being a, you know, a dynamic couple who has a history as is working on songs together. Is that a different process for you than, you know, your everyday life?

Tish: Okay. Yeah. I mean, cause I played bass on a couple other songs too on the, and I didn’t even play Bass on “Look Up”. So there’s a, you know, for, I think for dominantly first I’m always a bass player and I always have felt that way. And I’ve been in a lot of bands where I’ve done backups and I’ve like helped write songs. But this is the first time Michael really put me to task to write a song. And and I feel like I, you know, I showed up in and really gave it what I could and wanted to tell this incredible story about our life together. And then of course he makes me just shine brilliantly in the studio. So, but none of that would’ve been possible with any anybody else in the studio. But my husband, I know that…

Michael: Yeah that was Michael Rozon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that was one of the last songs that we, you know, as the record was I thought it was stopping at like nine songs in 10, then 11. And I think that it’s kind of obvious like listening to that song, it’s got a very My Bloody Valentine Slowdive, Lush, like that whole mid-nineties shoe gaze thing, which I, I really love that. I mean, I think ‘Loveless’ is just a, the groundbreaking record. So I, it started, listen to that, I’m going, you know, had this little riff, had a bunch of pedals go in delays and stuff and some red wine and started writing this riff. And I liked, you know, Tish, I know she’ll do something really cool on that. So we, Michael and I went in and did play the riffs, he did the drums and he came up with a really, cool bass line. And she came in, she had, you know, within two nights, like the first night kind of getting it and then came back. And then, I mean it’s got layers and layers of vocals with give, give it that, you know, as a whisper track on your it and everything caught up in that I think makes that song work. And that was for being one of the last songs on it, I always, when even before, as I was telling us that they have their dark horse on the record, you may not have the name of cache as most of the other people on it. I said, this is, you know, you know this song’s going to stand out. I think that the video we did for that, we had so much fun doing that. So as far as, again, they came out exactly what I envisioned for the noise.

JPP: That’s excellent. You know, you’re talking about the textures and all the pedals. I’ve got, I’ve got all the pedals here. I just, I never really drank red wine and played, so maybe that’s my missing piece. I’m gonna have to try that.

Tish: You’ll never has as many as my husband…

JPP: I’m sure I’d be like, oh, I’ll just lay back and falling over.

Michael: Yeah. I’m, I’m kind of a, a pedal nut. Know it’s really a crutch. Yeah. I grew up with, you know, guitar players that were never technically amazing players. You know, the Johnny thunders, Nick Robinson, who was a great player, you know, or some of the, you know, what would I cut my teeth on? But I was never the, you know, Jimmy page or Gilmore and all that kind of came to me later. So I think I was stunted my growth as a musician or at least guitar being technical. But I’ve always managed to come up with sounds and and, and maybe not having the, the crazy knowledge maybe approaching some of the parts a little bit differently than someone that’s, you know, went to Berkeley am I for

JPP: Certainly I can relate in that. You know, in my beginning journey, I wasn’t a flashy lead player. I was always more rhythm. But I always loved just hanging on to the simplicity of a melody and the way the base changed underneath it. And it’s just like those notes would kind of go different directions, but they would hit in a way that it just created a, a nice stack and you were just like, Ooh, you know what I mean? It didn’t have to be fast, it was just, it just had to hit that right moment.

Michael: Yeah, there are bands that do that real well I think The Cure is a great example. Now that has the a great bass line and then lots of parts that fit and you could subtract things and add it and it’s still still works, you know, or you can make it build or you can subtract it and open it up just by muting or lowering things. And I think we have some of that on this record as far as you know, really Michael Rozon’s like to me a musical mad scientist. And he certainly pushed me, you know, I mean there were points that I think guitars went flying across the room just, but I think he knew what buttons to push and you can get that better or that, you know, that sounds too rock or that sound, you know, and push me to take it another step further. And I think we, we created some pretty interesting sounds and textures from the guitar and I really loved that we put that a limitation on this record. Cause I do think limitations can be a good artistic, you know, push by just saying you can only, you can stay it and you gotta stay in this box. So I’m trying to figure out what the next box is going to be since I’ve now opened the gate and say that we can use keyboards.

JPP: Very cool. No, that’s, that’s awesome.

Metalhead Mundy: Did you have a formula in mind when creating this record?

Michael:. I think on this record it, it, it really started from a sound or a part and some of it, much to my wife’s Chagrin, some of it I wrote on bass, cause she always says I’m a want to be bass player. It’s just something that, you know, to me that would spark a vibe that naturally led into a second part. And you know, I didn’t do any, every song on this record is co-written with the singer, you know, nothing was given to them as far as lyrics and melody. I mean most of the songs were completely done, including a lot of the esoteric, you know, melodies that are going along. And I thought they did an amazing job, not latching on. Sometimes if you’re, you know, working with a singer, if you have a kind of a key melody or a guitar part that’s, you know, you’ll find a singer like start following that. And in the, these guys that worked on this record were pros who were able to kind of work in and around it and all they really got was the, the idea of, you know, what I told them Beauty In Chaos meant to me or why the whole record was going to be called ‘Finding Beauty In Chaos’. And that was really the only tidbit they had. Some of them took it a little more, a little than others, but somehow it came out cohesive that way. Okay. So yeah, I think usually, you know, even stuff that the Tish and I have written vocals and vocal melodies for, it’s usually the music first. You know, I think just.. I do have instrumental mixes, all of this and every now and then I’ll put that on in the background and it, it, they think even musically, I think the songs create a mood or a cool soundscape. You know, I’ve always had this interest in, in film scoring and you know, maybe this will be a jump to it. But you know, for this record was all, all music first and handing it over to some great singers that also wrote some, you know, really great lyrics and you guys touched on, go ahead. You know, sometimes people don’t even get, you know, the lyrics don’t mean much to people, but I’ve always, you know, I’ve been attracted, you know, and love songs that lyrically meant something and that were also open ended enough to where you can, you know, it’s not a literal meaning where it’s like, you know, you can kind of take from it and have your own feeling at what it means. And it could be completely different than what the singer had in mind, but I think those are some of the best songs.

Foggy: And I love, I love it when the the person who wrote this song will not reveal what their true meaning was behind that song. So it keeps it open for people to make it their own. I think that’s more special than here’s exactly what I had in mind. You know what I mean?

Michael: Yeah. It’s not always storytelling. It’s, I mean, for the singer it is, but I think everybody’s story is a little bit different. And I think on this record every one’s beauty and everyone’s chaos is a little bit different. I think we all have that in our life and you know, it, it’s different with everybody. And I think that’s kind of what’s special in that. But there’s, there’s some fantastic lyricists on this record.

JPP: Definitely. Yeah. And you know, to touch on that, one of the thing I kind of live by is we are all the sum of our own experiences, not to get, you know, metaphysical and all that kind of stuff. But nonetheless, we all have our journeys and our paths and it brings us together or apart in, in different points of time when, when, you know, you saying that you know, collaborating with the singers and, and co-writing and things like that. And I mentioned in our initial review that it felt like though Beauty In Chaos has it’s sound, but there was a complimentary nature to the guests that were on the album. You could hear their presence in what they’ve done in the past too, but not in a way where it’s like got a stamp on it per se, but the, sum of those experiences come together so nicely on, on these releases.

Michael: I appreciate that. Yeah, it, I mean, looking back at it now, just on paper to go, if I would’ve thought that we would’ve been able to make something cohesive with Robin Zander and then Wayne Hussey and then Doug Pinnick and like the, these guys would have never been on a record together. But I think somehow, and I’ll give a lot of credit to Michael Rozon here. It sounds like they should be on the record. I was always worried that this could just come out in, sounded like a compilation record. Like here, here’s Michael and all his friends, you know, that are across the board. And I think it, it actually flows real well. I mean a lot of time was spent on how the track water, which I don’t think people really care so much about anymore cause you can put that in a CD and hit skip you know, a random on your computer and it’s just, you know, no I don’t, I think dark side, the moon was meant to be listened to and hold the water and we worked on that and I think that lent, it’s a, made the songs kind of go into each other and you know, it works.

Foggy: Yeah, I agree. It looks like, you know, from the moment that we heard about you and started listening and reviewing, it just seems like you work your tail off to get this, get the word out and get the record out there. How different is it now than it was in the 80s? I know the record industry is so much different now. How, how much different is it for you? It feels like you kind of are going a lot more alone than maybe back then when you had a big push from a record company.

Michael: Yeah. It was different. You know, I think I learned early in this business by being parts of bands that actually end up getting a major label deal or even a independent deal that that’s not going to change your life, you know? And I think the way people have consume music now, and I think there’s a different value or a lack of value placed on music, I think people just want it for free. It’s like it should be on Spotify. It should be, you know, just put it on Youtube and, you know, I think they, they forget there is a, an art or also a cost to doing this and not to turn it into a monetary thing. And it’s not just about this record. I always think that if you like a band and you want them to see them do it again by their record, go to their show by the tee shirt, you know, I mean, then they keep doing it. Uh I think in this industry now, people are so okay with just copying it or trying to find a way to get it for free. You know? I mean, I guess I don’t see people going to a museum and go, I love this piece of art. I’m the top my phone and snap a picture of it and I want you to buy the reproduction of it. It’s just, it’s different now. And you know, thankfully I have a really good PR person, Shawna and emotion, you know, she’s just a single lady out of other Canada that just loves music and works it. And we, you know, through this we’ve met people like you you know, Ryan from Jammers E-zine Kevin, I’m with the big takeover and it just the, and they’ve become kind of friends. And I think there, there are people out there that are championing independent music and that is what the, you know, I could have cheap trick on it, but it’s still an indie band on an indie label and every bit this is really important. And if you’re not willing, so to work. And I think even for us being that it’s not a live entity, this type of stuff, even more important. Ah, you know, and how I, I, I lived this record, I’m happy to talk about it and I, it’s not lost on me. Anybody that, that likes it, you know, I know people who have so much on their plate and there’s, I think when I was buying records, I mean, that’s really, that was such a big part of, you know, I come home from school, put an album on, see what’s coming out, you know, wow, this is coming out in two weeks. People are so inundated, you know, with, you know, 500 channels video games, you know, news 24 hour news is just like, yeah, you know, to sit there and go, I’m going to put a record on. Seems to be way different than it was, you know, date myself. But when I was a kid, you know, I usually put a record on and listen to it, flipped it over and listen to the other side. It was more of a experience then, I think background than it is now. It’s sad. Maybe there’s a, maybe I know those will resurgence in vinyl which, which is wonderful. Yeah, I, I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know if it will ever return to the importance that it, that it had to me until a lot of my friends and probably most of the people that are on this album, but try.

Foggy: Well I will pledge to you right now. If you guys get together a live show, I’ll be there. Same. That’s all you have to do. Get everybody together one time and we’ll be there.

Michael: There is, you know, like I get asked that quite a bit on this. And it was, that was never the, it was never going to be that, only because I just didn’t think it was going possible. And so it was always a studio entity. But I, I find myself thinking about it more like maybe it’s because I’m, I’ve missed playing live right now and we’ve, we’ve had a couple of festivals say what if, what if? And yeah, I kinda got a short list of some people that seem like they would be interested in doing it. That would put up enough, you know, would allow us to do enough songs to put on a show and, and, and do the, the record justice. I mean, I think I’ve said before, I would never ask one singer, you know, like as Ashton go, hey, can you sing the Zander Song? Or, you know, can you sing the Pinnick Song? Or I just don’t think that the, you become a, a parody of yourself. And so it might happen. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll have an EP out first and then we’re, we’re looking at some festivals next year. Fingers crossed if, if it, if some pieces fall into place, there may be a couple of live Bauty In Chaos shows.

Foggy: Cool!

Michael: Ask her to play the bassline for Bloodless and Fragile, and if she passes the audition then…?

Foggy: Michael told us earlier that you would be performing tonight on the podcast.

T-Bags: I’m listening to all this and I like the, I’m not a musician at all, but I have been in fine arts all of my life and so I kind of feel like, I love the grittiness of, so what, that the industry changed. I’m still gonna make music or I’m still gonna do in art, you know? And so, and the fact like you mentioned like jammers iin and because, because I f we found you guys and Ah, and I did some research, now I found some articles on there and there’s like this, you can’t stop it. Force of connectedness, you know, once it starts to happen. Uso there’s that plus side of like the world gets smaller with the Internet, but uit all, all those goes out all the way back though. You were talking about Beauty In Chaos and like, what does that mean to you? Even outside the record? What does that phrase mean you guys?

Michael: I think it goes back a little bit to what I said about being inundated. You know, I think every way you turn no news. There’s never really is rarely anything good. You know, that you, here you’re just bombarded. Politics, religion, you know the coming apocalypse, world’s going to end, you know, left side, right side. It’s just, it just seems all negative and you know, it’s even, you go to the water cooler and it’s just people just talking how it’s just this air of, you know, unhappiness and it becomes wearing and it’s hard not to fall victim to that. And, you know, I think sometimes you got to, and I mean, I don’t always do it. My wife will probably slap me, but I don’t love to sit down and look around and go, look, we got two beautiful healthy, healthy girls that are strong, independent women. Uh you know, we both have jobs that are able to put our kids in the college, you know, I mean there is a lot of good, if you look, if you, if you actually look for it or let it, you know, let it be. And so yeah, it was just the idea of finding something good. The beauty in the chaos that seems, you know, to surround us and to do a record about it and not be preachy, you know, because my faith is different than your faith might. Chaos is different than what you’re going through in your life. It’s just I think starting to work with Ashton, I think that the line about the Stowe, the lyrics and storm there’s always a light. I think that was such a key lyric too, to tie this record together that there is, there is good out there and there are good people and you know duty and cat, like I was saying before, we’ve attracted and really good people that have become part of it. I mean, Beauty In Chaos isn’t me. It isn’t just me and Michael and it actually isn’t just me and Michael and the people that are on this record is you guys jammers, Dean Shauna Tim, Paul, all these people have just become kind of like part of it and are happy to kind of talk about it and their involvement and what they’d like to see happen. So I mean, this is something really it’s created something that’s a snowball and I think much needed one. I believe, I’m thrilled. I’m thrilled to see where it can go. And I think our cover of the record perfectly exemplifies what, you know, Beauty In Chaos that that dilapidated building that some friends of mine bragging and sour in Pennsylvania, their hobby is going to shoot these abandoned buildings like out in the middle houses that, you know, that sort of the, the earth is taken back. So just that whole idea of them walking into something that’s rusted, but then as this beautiful tree is wrapped around it and it’s just like, wow, there’s beauty in the chaos there. And so taking that building and putting to what outer beauty is, are our two daughters and putting them in that situation. I think that that puts a stamp on, on what that, that means.

JPP: Well said.

Foggy: Tish, do you have anything to add to that?

Tish: No. I mean, I, I think when you see a crack in the sidewalk and you see the flower coming through, that to me it was like in my brain always. That’s, that’s the beauty. And you can ask right there. It’s beauty always wins. Don’t always breakthrough. And and making my husband look at life that way and being grateful for everything like that every day I think is part of what I do.

Foggy: 26 years together as a testament. So you guys are doing something right. Congratulations.

JPP: Absolutely.

T-Bags: Yes. 100%.

Michael: It doesn’t always happen. People that are in entertainment and other solo were not Brad and Angelina, you know, not that I think just staying grounded and trying to be a, be a good person, then you attract, I think you attract good people and as, as you get you go through life, I think you wise up and hopefully learning to recognize the people that our users love it and not good people. And it’s not that you don’t lend a helping hand to someone, but you know, those people that are, that become a time sock and inspiration sock you know, starting to learn to just kind of separate myself from that and focus on what, what actually is important. Yup. Okay. That’s again all metaphysical on you guys here.

T-Bags: No, I love it. This firstly, yeah, this is, this is what’s great.

Michael: I mean, cause let’s talk, let’s talk about Zack. Wylde. Let’s break it down.

JPP: Yeah, yeah. No, no, it’s totally cool, man. I was just gonna say real quick too, because, you know, you’re talking about you know, kind of keeping it grounded and everything. My wife does the same thing to me where if I’m busy and I get stressed out after a while, if I get too tense, she’s like, you know what, you need to go play some guitar and kind of unwind a little bit. So she’s very supportive and knows that creative outlet is very important to my wellbeing. So you know, I count my blessings there for sure. And that’s, that’s awesome that you two have that going also.

Michael: Well, certainly my wife and Michael Rosen, I think they were watching some of the frustration when I was doing the last human drama record. And I think that, I mean, those guys I grew up with and we’ve gone through a lot together, but I do think there gets, you know, sometimes as a point that you just grow apart musically. No start trying to be a round peg in a square holed or vice versa. And it just, I think they both would see the, my wife to frustration of coming home. And I think just on the fact of the human drama side of it, it’s just like competing with keyboards, piano strings, acoustic guitars, just like to guitar. Oh, the electric guitar, at least the way I play was taking such a, a diminished role. And as I was kind of expanding into the whole soundscapes, it’s like, that’s fantastic, but you don’t hear it. And I think she was sensing that frustration and Michael Rozon, who was actually recording the guitar parts just simply turned around and said, man, do your own record. And Ana started that innocently, and I just thought for a second. And I went home and I went, okay, so if I do this, I’m gonna get to sing. And I came back and, and told Michael, so what if we do this? And I asked and I get, you know, asked friends to, to be part of this and have guest singers. And he’s like, you think you can pull that off? And I think the next week Robin Zander came in the studio and then a few days later Al came in and he goes, you can make this happen. And it was a so on our way and then he and now hit it off fantastic. And Michael engineered and the, the last American ministry record he’s working with al again on the new record. So I mean, yeah, like Yo mentioned earlier, we just kind of spiderwebs you know, kind of the, the way things do now you know, you just meet people and it’s, you know, good people just be in working together and that, that worked for a while.

JPP: Very cool. That’s really cool. You mentioned Zakk Wylde. Let’s, yeah, let’s open that door for sure. The Madman himself, the man who found, what was it did he said that his face was a natural disaster, so it was only…

Michael: One of the funniest guys I know. And he’s probably him and Doug panic are probably the two hardest working guys. Like in this industry. They are always playing. They’re always doing a record or touring. I mean Zach’s juggling, you know, Ozzie Black Label Society Zack Sabbath. Then he goes out on the [inaudible] experience or generation ax. I know it was the dude just was playing with Tom and Eddie really by him, especially men. Just incredible. Yeah, Doug does. I mean, he’s doing king’s x again. He just did a new hey excel record, Peter those grinder blues. I mean those guys are great and they’re, you know, they’re looked at as, you know, players, players and to just see how humble they are. I mean, how Zack I asked, thankfully I’ve become friends with Zach, you know, and just, just a sweetheart guy, great dad. Uh and I asked him about coming to play as we were starting to do this the remix record. And even though I kinda liked my solo and on natural disaster, it was just a one-take me stepping on the wall y and just kind of go and far it is like, you know, it doesn’t hold a candle to Zack, but the guy came in the day after playing I think it was maybe Ozzy did the forum here and Zach shows up, you know, got his guitar, not in a case and uncomfortable pulling the mic, let’s go. And you know, I mean not that’s a true friend, you know. I mean, I’m sure the guy would’ve, you know, had hit a lot of this stuff to do that day. And he came in and shot the video and really interesting. Not My, that’s not the guitar school I grew up in, but I actually thought that he was just going to sit there and just maybe play as many notes, quite a lot of notes, but on a 32 bar, a solo, like really work out each section. Like, he took it as like little eight or bytes and you worked it out and he said, you know, I learned that how Eddie Constructs a soul and Randy Rhodes and like, you know, guys that were his influence in this really being a fly on the wall and watching Zack like actually construct that was pretty cool.

JPP: That’s awesome.

Michael: Okay. Yeah. And I sit there and go, there;s a million guitar players that would, you know, sitting on this couch and my little, you know, 20 by 20 studio watching Zack just rip uh, would just like, you know, give an arm for, and he’s cutting up and he’s laughing. And then the funny part is when these guys turn to me and go, what do you think? I’m sitting there with Robin did a couple of vocal takes and then he comes into studio and he sits down and he’s got the lyrics sheet and he goes, play on the playback. He goes, what do you think of that? And it’s hard not to go, go back to as a kid having, you know, in color, you know, and surrender. Listen to the surrender a dream police and you go, this is the guy and he’s asking me what I think and you go, hey, you know Robin, your little flat on that one.

W+W: That’s surreal. Oh Man. Yeah. Okay.

Michael: Yeah, pretty much. And then to have Michael Anthony in air and his vocals, you know, are such a trademark, like his harmonies of Van Halen and him go, hey yeah, just give me three tracks and we’ll stack them. That’s what I did in Halan. And it’s just like, okay, yeah. Three drives. Yeah. Okay. Oh candy that, I mean, I, I, he, he can still sit there and when he’s warming out, you know, he hit all the stuff in like running with the devil and stuff like that. He’s still got that you know, range and it’s, it’s, it was actually pretty cool. And then, you know, you would think those guys would have done something together. And it’s really the first time they been on a record together. I mean cheap trick and Van Halen play tons of shows together. But Oh, the first time they’ve ever been on it after, I think I asked Robin about that and I’m going, how come you not me? He goes, he goes, dude, you hear that guy saying, I’m not going to sing with him. And talking about, you know, a background standard. I mean problem man, Robin’s probably the best American rock and roll singer. You know, you throw him in Steve and Tyler. But I mean, you know, that dude doesn’t phone it in. I’ve seen chip cheap trick multiple times and I mean he, they’re not tuning down to d to try that to, you know, distinct those songs. I mean, he, he’s got pipes.

Foggy: I was like, yeah, you had, I mean, that lineup across the board is amazing. Is there anybody that see that you wish you could have had or if you were to do a 2.0 of this one or a second record, is there somebody that you just have to have on their record?

Michael: Yeah. I mean, I certainly have my wishlist, you know, and I mean, I don’t, it’s not like I’m sitting here thumbing through a Rolodex and able to go, wow, we didn’t, you know, we didn’t get, you know, So-and-so didn’t have Robert Plant or this one or, you know, it didn’t have Bono. Ya know? Let’s call Bono, you know. But I mean, I wanted Robert Smith on it, you know, and over the years he and I have become, you know, friends just, you know, again through Schecter, but you know, we’re similar age and similar, grew up with punk rock and everything. And I mean, yes, I’ve been sending him a track and he wrote back, I really like it. I’m struggling with pure lyrics and gee, that’s almost two years. And I tend to believe him because they haven’t put out their record flat yet saying that it’s because there are no lyrics. So I mean, I’d log with, you know, but I mean, having Simon Gallup you know, that was, that’s just wonderful for me. What about Richard Butler? Yeah. If you want my short list and if we’re broadcasting this out and we’ll put a sign call if the interest, I think Richard bought with a psychedelic, it’s just that the guy’s got a limited, and I don’t mean not in a negative way, but if you’re looking at a piano, if that guy can sing 12 notes across what he does within that is just amazing. You know, I’d love to work with him. My wife’s gonna Punch me, but I’m gonna say Shirley Manson. I was,

Tish: I’m not gonna punch you! Just because you have a crush…

Michael: Yeah. Lyric way. She’s just, you know, she’s got, you know, like my wife wife, you know, she’s a bad ass and she, she’s things with them, but also just amazing melodies and counter melodies. UI’d love to work with our, I think Julian Reagan from all about eve. I just think hassled, wonderful boys. Yeah. As we rank in from a, okay. Okay. You know, I’d actually, you know how you talked about going to see stabbing westward. I saw Leslie and Martin Atkins do a Ruby, a coal wave here. Sounds like there was less people then what you saw at stabbing westward and that it’s hard not to go to that. And first I feel bad for them, but she was amazing. But you go, this is the state of music right now. This is jaded la that you know you’re going to see a line around the block.

Michael: Some people go into some dance club, but when you have have this lady just who I think’s amazing in pulling it off wise. I mean they had Martin played the drums and she was had an iPad or her hand and was doing all the effects and kind of going in, you know, it was just great. I mean, I actually have talked to her a little bit and you know, certainly nothing in stone, but at least I’ve got the dialogue going. Awesome. I’m sure other people, you know, I mean, ah, okay. Yeah, yeah. She moved to my hometown in New Orleans, which sometimes becomes a vacuum to people in now. It’s a, it’s a or a death. Yeah. It’s an amazingly musicals, which I didn’t appreciate growing up. You know, you know, you always want to get out of where you’re from. But when I go back now and you walk through the French quarter, you just hear you, you see a kid meeting on the a bucket and it’s just like, yes, just rhythm and vibe that’s down there that I didn’t unfortunately appreciate she moved down there. And from what I know I think there’s going to be a pig face, ah, reunion and going to be wow. Well, yeah, there’s people, you know, I, I guess I put Peter Murphy in in that you know what, I definitely, there are people that have been involved in this record that, you know, I will certainly work with Ashton again. In fact, we’re already working on another song. We working on another song with Wayne Hasi. I mean, I would like to, you know, when I say evolve, I would like to have more people come into the fold and you know, I know at some point if I, if I continue this, it isn’t going to be, they can’t live or die on the WHO’s who, you know, like, ah, see who he is. He going to get Mick Jagger, you know, it’s gonna hopefully get to the point where just as an entity hit it, it starts becoming about the songs. And maybe, maybe it turns into me finding some unknown people that are just great at what they do. I mean, ah, if you do know Mick Jagger, wow.

JPP: Hold on just one second here. Nope, get the speed dial j baby.

Michael Okay. Yeah, that’s, I mean, I know at some point it’s got to get involved beyond the WHO’s who. I bet. I mean, I didn’t know eve until, you know, mark, the way it introduced me to Wayne and Wayne introduced me to Evie. So there’s that kind of a, you know, thread that kind of runs. So, you know, there, I think there will, there’ll be more people coming into this cool in early on into our show. Well even before the show

JPP: I met Steve and Siebold of hate department and standalone. Yeah.

Michael: He actually has a song right now.

JPP: Oh yeah?

Michael: Yeah. That was one when I started working at Schecter paint departments was one of the first bands I stumbled on. It was like Hate Dept., 16 Volt. You know, I really got into that industrial thing and I was still “Bold”. Just had a, a cool quirkiness about him and it, he knew how to spit venom, but with a style and a, I think it’s pretty good chance that he’ll be on the next EP. He has a track that he’s working on. Yeah,

JPP: He yeah, he and I met through a craigslist transaction. He bought some gear off of me and we kind of stayed connected through that. And then because of social networks, he was talking about standalone and then he mentioned Beauty In Chaos and that’s what turned us onto it in the first place. So speaking of that Web. So, you know, nonetheless. Yeah, he’s, he’s an interesting cat and I definitely appreciate what he shares in his insight into, to music. And I’m just kind of saying publicly thank him. I’m thanking him for turning us on to you in the first place, so I didn’t know that. So I’m going to have to send him a thank you tonight. But yeah, he’s got, you know, this next record just to segue quickly into that, ah, is [inaudible] I’m trying to go with, it’s going to be an EP and I’ve told Michael had gone, if I try to do more than five longs to slap me.

Foggy: So you’re saying there’s going to be twelve…

Michael: I don’t want to challenge people with another big lesson and I think there’s this wait, that’s off like, hey, we can get this out because I’d love to have something out before the end of the year. Ubecause I mean, in theory, Beauty In Chaos right now is 14 songs, but two albums that are 14 and 25. So I’m creatively itching to do something. And I think we’ve got a kind of a, a direction here,uthat I think it’s going to make a very cohesive e p and a, I’m hoping that Steven’s part of that.

JPP: Very cool. I’ve got one last question, but before I ask gentleman, do you have anything that you want to ask?

T-Bags: I had a question kind of about what we were just talking about. They say like in art, the hardest part of creating art is knowing when to stop. And you kept talking about the list of people. Like when did you decide like, okay this is, this is what I want for this remix album. What was your stopping point?

Michael: I think it was just a time thing. Like this time… The first record. I only stopped when I decided to Google. I typed in how many minutes of music can fit on a CD cause I actually often, and it was like, well if you can you can fit 80 minutes. Ah, but 70 74 recommended. And then we went to the pressing plant. I had to have the conversation and finally with the guy pulled me aside and goes, you can do 79 minutes without having an issue, you’re just going to have to sign a waiver. Yeah. I think we actually had to add it to make it fit at 79 and 20 something seconds. I think I actually, we edited a, a little part of unnatural disaster, I think one, one chorus or something. God, Paul, that was the only way to make it actually fit. Please record it, you know, knowing that it was going to be a single CD and that went, you know, I’m not a big fan of digital releases and I thank God everyday that my label and Tim Perry who runs it is a vinyl nut and he’s adamant about doing vinyl. So going, okay, if we’re going to do the rest of these songs on a, you know, digital, there is no time constraints and you know, thankfully everything that everybody did yet and no one sent something back that was, you know, not where I would just want to, you know, that they didn’t put the time in. I mean there were all pros. So yeah, I don’t think I, I said stop on that one. Whereas I had to on the other one. But I’m going into the EP. I’m already telling myself stop.

T-Bags: There you go.

JPP: Right on. Anyone else?

Michael: Sometimes not become myself. Stop on how many tracks? Cause I think pro tools and digital recording is sort of the great enabler cause you keep going, create two tracks, create two more stereo tracks. It just keeps it keep up where we were. I mean the pull our hard drive in the computer was probably just, that record was meant to be layered. And I mean there were, you know, lots of guitar tracks, some in my head, this new stop I’m, I want it to be a bit darker and a little more linear sounding. And so that’s kind of the direction we’re taking that.

JPP: Cool. I’m creating my own limitations. I’ve got cassettes I’m recording on just just to kind of give myself some, you know, new barriers. I’ve got a reel to reel. I’m trying to get back up and running and I just really want to play with some of the struggles intentionally now. So …

Michael: There are cassette only labels.

JPP: Yes.

Michael: Now I’m in Europe, that kind of popped up and there are a lot of people that actually use, and I’m kind of starting, you know, with my love of pedals, kind of experimenting a little bit with putting like a four track cassette recorder and putting like guitar stuff on that flipping the tape over. And so I’m having four tracks out or sometimes just like feedback loops and stuff like that and running that into one of the pedal boards and kind of manipulating the sound that way. You know, I mean there are brands like Radiohead does like great sound manipulation. Sigur Ros does that real well. Whoa. Trying to look at some of that layers on this stuff. And maybe with this being five songs I can get to my original concept of having, having the, the tracks kind of strung together. You know, maybe when someone pops the CD it just says one song.

T-Bags: Right.

JPP: There you go. That’s awesome. Well, cool. So here’s my last question. Unless Foggy, you have anything. Sorry,

Foggy: After you ask we already kept them over an hour. I will ask them if they want to play the challenge this week, but a, we’ll leave that up to them. Go ahead and ask your last question and I’ll go.

JPP: Okay. So I’m gonna ask for listeners and musicians out there, you’ve independently released this major under undertaking, you know, in a short amount of time, aside from the recording and the production and that kind of thing, what advice would you have for aspiring musicians? I see a lot of social presence and I see a lot of great PR and marketing and things like that. So say somebody who’s been touring for awhile and playing a lot of shows and ready to kick it up to the next level. What kind of mindset or you know, quick little tools do you suggest that they take to help themselves? Elevate? Of course. You know, you have your band and your team, so you know what other team members, you said PR, things like that. I really want to kind of expand on that so that way they can understand that they’re not alone in the journey.

Michael: I think the PR part is, you know, being independent has been really important. It did help this, especially because with Beauty In Chaos, we don’t have that ability of going, you know, sending out a social media blast. Hey we’re coming to your town, come see us and buy our CD. So it’s, for us it’s been a little different because it is, you know, oppress. And it’s also been doing the videos. So I would say find a good press person that is diligent and has relationships with outlets, you know, and I think that’s really important. Cause then you, I mean there is so much music coming out and go back to when I was a kid, it wasn’t good. I mean I was like waiting for, you know, the next Alice Cooper record to come out. But now as you’re waiting for the next Alice Cooper record to come out, does 5,000 records that are out. It’s just inundated. So finding a press person that has relationship, personal relationships and know that when they send something it’s good. I think has been paramount for us. And I think, you know, doing quality videos, you know, we were lucky to meet Vicente with Industrialism Films and worked with him on every video and that has sort of been the face of what Beauty In Chaos actually is. I think those two things have been really important and B, be forthcoming. Be Honest. Don’t try to be something that you’re not and you know, you do it for the right reasons and it’s from the heart. I mean, either people are going to like it or they not and don’t take, don’t take the criticism. You know, everybody, the Internet has made everybody a journalists. It’s made everybody a critic. Most people, and I deal with it in the guitar business too. It’s like people seem to, to live to stir shit or you know, who mean something they don’t prescribe to that. If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it. And even if they have something nice to say, it’s cooler to say something not nice. And so don’t that, I mean, well let that grow off. Don’t, you know, don’t engage those people. You know, and it’s hard.

Tish: I think I think what’s really important for musicians today is to like know your fans and really you know, like for instance, I one of my best friends is Kelly from a band called the dollar rods and they always do a go fund me to put out their next albums. And then for all of those things that they do for their fans, like they know they have fans that love cupcakes. So she’ll spend, you know, on some of the Gofund Muesli it’ll be, she’ll be up faking 300 cupcakes to send out to her fans just to, so they know that they so appreciate what they’re doing with the band and helping support the van. And so it’s really knowing your fans and supporting your fans and being there for them is really important.

Foggy: Excellent. Makes a lot of sense. All right, well, like I said, we have kept you over an hour. Would you like to play? We made the challenge a little brief this week, so it’s not too extensive. Would you guys like to play?

Tish: Sure!

Foggy: All right. And there is a rule. Nobody that is on here can choose any song from Beauty In Chaos. Right? So the challenge is basically really simple. What is your favorite cover or remix?

Tish: Yeah, I know. I love Crimson clover by Joan Jett. I think it’s like one of the best. I love that song so much and she did an amazing job with it, so…

T-Bags: She’s awesome.

Foggy: Dang! She nailed that quickly.

Tish: My favorite remixes ever.

Michael: So bringing on my wife hit the buzzer first. It gave me a little time to think. No, I’m, I’m gonna go with the passenger. I Suzy into the cheese. I mean, I love Iggy’s version and I think they did a wonderful version that I think like the horn and stuff like that was just brilliant. So I’m gonna go with the passenger by Susie.

Foggy: Awesome… Metalhead!

Metalhead Mundy: Uh I went the remix route instead, and just a little background or in the early nineties, Paul and I, you know, we were kind of Baby metal heads, we just kind of, kinda started getting into the industrial sound quite a bit and you know, who’s on the ministry and nine inch nails on all that kind of stuff. And KMF DM very quickly became one of our favorites. And so came FDM, had a big history in the eighties and nineties. They would put out singles that had tons of remixes with them and one of my favorites was from there 94 album anx the very first track on there I think is a, that’s a song called light. And they released an EAP that was, it was nine tracks and it was all right. They didn’t even put the actual track on it. I think it was just nine remixes of the same song and came FDM really kind of opened my eyes to the possibilities of remixes and how different they could be. And you know, all just the same song cut up and rearrange so many different ways, different tempos, different totally different fields, moods from these nine remixes and that that light eps has always been one of my favorites. I go back to quite a bit.

Michael: Yeah, good choice. They, that was back in the day that it was a little more difficult to do remixes. You didn’t have the benefits of protocols and I think it makes total digital recording makes moving things around and changing tempos a little bit easier. And those guys did it well. I thought to me metal had, I thought you were going to go with like green man Alisha.

Metalhead Mundy: I know. I Love Judas priest, but that, yeah, I know I went remixes instead of covers. Covers is too hard.

Foggy: T-Bags!

T-Bags: Okay. Well shockingly, I went with nine inch nails. I know, but and I went with a closer but the precursor mixed by coil and Danny hide. Oh, the reason I really love that was for me in that time of my life, especially like seven was out and it was the opening title credits. Oh Cooper. Designed the credits. He’s my favorite like designer of like motion graphics, David Fincher directed the film. And then you know, having nine inch nails be remixed and having that open up the whole album. I was like a perfect storm, so it was very dark for, and for me too, like as a serious deep nine-ish nails fan. I always hated like just the people screaming, just the chorus at the concert, you know? So it was nice to see it go even darker than yeah. The, the radio side.

Tish: Did you like their, their version of let’s get physical?

T-Bags: Absolutely. Yes.

Tish: That’s a great one..

T-Bags: It really was. I loved the a guitar work on that especially.

Michael: Well, let’s get physical. Actually. Olivia Newton, John, it’s just no physical to physical.

T-Bags: Yes, great track. Right.

Michael: What did he do? Let’s Physical… Animal animal.

T-Bags: Well he did let Miley Cyrus just do some of his songs, so anything’s possible.

Michael: I would put Tramp on my list. I’d that would be pretty cool to work.

Metalhead Mundy: Oh yeah,

Foggy: We would agree with you. Yes. Not that you needed it. JPP , whaddaya got?

JPP: This was a tough challenge guys. It’s worst than the favorite song or the song you hate when he did while back. So, you know, I could have easily went with the fixed EAP from nine inch nails because it was a complete remixes and skinny puppy was involved. Again pre pope pro tools and it was just complete reinterpretations and mangling and all that fun stuff. But a song that immediately popped to my head just cause it’s been on my mind and wanting to listen to it lately, it was a perfect circles. Judith, the Ren holder remix, which I really liked because they took the strings, made them darker, a lot of real dark baselines and some stuttery stuff going on. It was really reinterpreted and Maynard’s voice did a nice job on top of it. And I, I love the song Judith originally, but just to hear the extra, just, it’s almost like they went down six levels in hell with the song and you know, for lack of a better way to describe it. But nonetheless, it’s just still, I’m kind of like what we were talking about before we, and you have a song and it does great, and then they stripped it down and then they just added some embellishments that were not real busy, but they were intricate, I guess is the key thing and those little pieces just really stuck out to me and it always made a lasting mark.

Michael: Sounds like I should have sent you some of the what you pick a song or for Beauty In Chaos and what you have a go at it.

JPP: Oh man, I’m humbled, but I don’t know.

Foggy: Yes. Do it. We want to see the challenge.

JPP: Oh Man.

Michael: The song, I’ll send you the tracks.

JPP: Okay, we’ll see what happens.

Metalhead Mundy: Yeah, just just to embarrass Paul a little bit… He did that when a Trent released the, a lot of the stems and had everybody let everybody do whatever they want with them. He did a couple of remixes of nine inch nails, so

JPP: Yeah, I did those for Tony for his birthday actually. Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. The whole idea. The stems might have bit Trent in the ass now. That is the, the loop is that Lil Nas song. Yeah, yeah. Old Town road. Yeah. It suddenly becomes real different when there’s that much money coming from something you might want to, I’m waiting to see me chart there. Yup. I want you to see how that all pans out because that was under the creative comments. It wasn’t released for commercial, but you could use them. I’m waiting to see if their camp goes after some of that money. Yeah, I think that, I think there’s that site where produces an engineer’s upload loops and I think the guy bought that loop for like 30 bucks or something

T-Bags: Crazy. Yeah.

Foggy: All right. And the final one is my choice. Yeah. Yeah. I’m here too… This is vaguely interesting to me because this singer is known basically for a cover, which is so sad. All of the, the contest lyrics shows everybody saying Hallelujah after Jeff Buckley did it. And it’s so sad because he was such an amazing artist. I love, and that’s not the cover that I’m choosing. Even though that was brilliant. Connor Murphy and nothing but thieves, redid lover, you should’ve come over. Buckley’s version is absolutely amazing. But Connor Murphy, that voice is staggering and his version is so amazing. He just flat out and nails it. And I never thought I could love Buckley songs more sung by somebody else because he’s such a talent, but uh, Murphy really nails it and it’s perfect.

Michael: Yeah. We have to give that a listen.

Foggy: Yeah. He’s, the group has nothing but thieves and he’s Connor Murphy. That song is lover. You should’ve come over up. I’ll send that to you in uh, messenger.

Michael: Yeah. What is that a Houston Texans logo on your hat? No, blue jays. Okay.

T-Bags: Since we’re talking about cities, can I really quickly say like New Orleans is my favorite city and I tried to go there as often as I can, but when you’re talking about that musician stuff, I went there the first time at the end of Marty girl and it was the worst time to go, so I can’t believe I went back. But after I got through the whole, you know, walking tours and seeing all the beads in the shop and Bourbon Street and all that, I started to go back and just take like a sketchpad and drink wine and you know, walk around and, and kind of like dive into the art. But city is full of art every single turn and it doesn’t feel like you’re in America. It’s just a really unique, like artsy place I think.

Michael: What have you, you’ve the common thread of the Florida way seemed, if you look, it’s, it’s as much as I can put it all over the Beauty In Chaos stuff, on our headstock so I do fly and it’s on my arm. So I’d fly that flag as much as I can.

T-Bags: Absolutely. You should proudly cause it’s a unique nice, I love it. I, I kind of want to move there, but I don’t know if that would ruin it for me. So

Michael: No, it’s, it’s, it’s a tough place to, you know when, when things are in excess and that is a city of excess. We’re open 24 hours and you can get a drive through Daiquiri, you know, take it in small doses.

T-Bags: Well, you see, you say open 24 hours, but it’s the first city I’ve ever been to where someone just said there was a sign on the door that they went home to take a nap. They just closed And they went home just like a no. So yeah, laid back, but I love it.

Foggy: Awesome guys. We cannot thank you enough for coming on the show tonight. You guys are special. We love what you’re doing. You’re grounded, you’re everything that is right about the industry and we couldn’t be more pleased to support you and, and happier that you’re on our show.

T-Bags: Absolutely.

Michael: Really appreciate that.

Michael Nah, you know, it’s not, not lost on me. You know again, we meet good people and you, you three guys are totally in that category with us.

Tish: One, Two, Three, Four.

Michael: There’s three.

Metalhead Mundy: I’ll take it on the chin. I can be not the good guy…

Michael: You four guys. It’s okay. You know what, when I was getting emails it was with three. I’m sorry.

JPP: That’s okay. Metalhead Mundy kind of comes and goes, he’s our Shemp from the Three Stooges. He’s on once in a while.

Metalhead Mundy: That’s the level of respect I get, too…

Michael: No, I do like Stabbing Westward. Ungod was one of my favorite records.

JPP: Well thank you. We’d like to consider you guys friends of the show. And, you know, we were honored and humbled to have you and please stay in touch, keep us up to date with what’s happening and if we can help in any way we’re, we’re happy to do so.

Metalhead Mundy: Come back anytime.

Michael & Tish: Thank you guys. It was really nice meeting y’all.

Foggy: Would you like to drop some places to get your record before you get off?

Michael: You know, we were doing this on our website, you know, Beauty In Chaos, music.com you know, the distribution and all that stuff. It is so different nowadays, you know, it’s, it’s on CD baby and Amazon and all that. But you know, I like the kind of interaction with people and then when they purchases through our site, you know, so

Foggy: Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much. And next week we will be back and we will, we’ll be reviewing NF, “The Search”, and somebody’s going to have a challenge, but we don’t know what that is because we were so wrapped up with this. We forgot to come up with one. So if you’ll find out next week,

Michael: We’ll see everybody. Bye now. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you. Have a great night. You too. Oh, I’m four of you. Yeah, I redeem myself there. Yeah. Thanks guys. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Outro Music: Spazztic Plastic by justplainpaul.